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Trip like I do
I am currently taking Allmax QuickMass 1010 Rapid Weight Gain Catalyst, Animal Stack - the complete Anabolic Hormone Stack and SuperPump 250 Instant Muscle Amplifier/ Lean Mass Catalyst.

I've gained 15 pounds with this combination but feel bloated at times! Strength has increased as well.
Mr Bananas
I cant comment on the supps you are using, but i can tell you this: You can drink a drink with 7-15 grams of EAA (stimulates protein synthesis more than protein does) on an empty stomach the minute before you begin lifting, during lifting you dont need to eat/drink anything but water, after you should either drink another 7-15 grams of EAA or take a gainer, when you get home you should eat lots and lots of food.
Sleep well, eat well, lift well, and you will grow!
Rick
Stay hungry, as the Governator used to say. Working out makes you hungry.
Net Runner Overdose
best supplements on the market are meat, meat and meat. I use a whole variety of bodybuilding supplements, you name it I probalby use it. but meat makes difference.

let see, animal stack is excellent. superpump only makes me go to toilet. gainers are ok but I prefer whey protein.
my favourite pre workout supplement is animal m stack, but now i m useing 200 mg of caffeine and 220 mg of guarana 20 mins before + liquid amino acids 1 min before.
after trainig I use optimum nutrition 100% whey gold standard with 5 gr of creatine + 5 gr of glutamine + 1 gr of taurine
or
muscletech nitro tech hardcore or ss professional strenght whey ....
during workout use EAA.

do not forget to eat meat, as many you can.
XR500Final
Don't forget to raise your Testosterone - one of the best methods to do this quickly and naturally is to do whole body lifting - German Dead Lifts and stuff like this.

The larger muscle groups work out lots as they will drive Testosterone produciton (leg squats, whole body lifts).

As I understand it you can raise Testosterone by 40% from this simple exercise.

Fail that its of for the 4 blend testosterone mixers
code buttons
Ok, here's my question:
I've always had a very lean, healthy body. But, I'm about to start working out again because I'm finding really hard to see my abs for the first time in my life. I've come to that time of my life when I'm finding really hard to get rid of this bicycle-tire size belt around my waist. So, strict diet is not working any more. I'm about to get back to my old weight lifting routine. The plan is basically to accelerate my metabolism towards reversing the aging process so that fat is churned into fiber again, as it is when you're in your 20s. I don't have any problem with keeping a strict diet and the rigorous exercise routine needed to accomplish my goals. My problem with supplements is that most of them do nothing but bulk you up through an enhanced muscle water retention process, which, I'm definitely not interested in. ie: Creating, and others. So all I really think I'm going to be taking is vitamin supplement pills. But, I'm also worried that I may be missing out on some real important chemical elements my muscles may need in this building process, which may or may not be in the vitamin supplements and my food! Should I just stick to food diet with the right protein-carb-fiber combo, or, is there something out there on the shelves that won't just fake-bulk me up? Thank you all for the advice, and, peace everyone!
Flex
Diet is totally fine if you do it right. Absolutely no need for supplements. However, there is something to be said for some of the products out there. Things I would look into for you: carnitine, chromium, good multi with plenty of B vit. fish oil, and arginine.

Creatine is actually a pretty good product. Has definitely been shown to improve performance (particularly in the first 10 seconds it allows you to go hard for about an additional second). You will retain more water, but that is not a bad thing, it is just a consequence of the physiology (unless you are a marathon runner, then it might be a bad thing).

If you just follow proper diet protocol, you are sure to gain water weight as well. If I recall properly, a gram of glycogen requires about 3 grams of water to store, so as your glycogen stores increase with strength training, so too will your water weight.

Go buy some coconut water and see if you like it. Great way to stay hydrated and increase potassium intake. If you want to see your abs, you will probably want to up your potassium intake, and keep your sodium about where it normally is (you lose more sodium when you sweat, so you don't really need to cut sodium from the diet so long as you are working out hard).

There is also popular ZMA stack you may want to look into. It is also important to make sure you are meeting your daily calcium requirement, but spreading out intake.

If you want to get into some cool stuff smile.gif recent NADH research, a lot of which is soon to be published out of UCLA, has strongly suggested its efficacy as an ergogenic aid. In the future, it may even be added to the WADA list (which is pretty BS as it isn't a particularly dangerous compound. This will also aid as a nootropic. Other "nootropics" will also give you an immense workout aid. Galantamine in particular works well for me. Anything boosting acetylcholine levels should help do the job, since ACh is vital to muscle firing. L-DOPA works for sure smile.gif Deprenyl will definitely get the job done, but is sort of risky, so don't take more than 1mg and NEVER take it with L-DOPA or galantamine.

When purchasing vitamins look for forms bound to TCA intermediates. They are generally better absorbed and have slight additional benefits to metabolic function.

Honestly the most effective supplement you are going to find for your goal is ephedra. You can buy the powdered herb online, and make a tea. Bring water to a boil, reduce to a simmer. Add herb (I used around 5-10 grams). Add a tablespoon or so of lemon juice. Simmer 10-15 min, filter and you are good to go. Tack on a glass or two of green tea, and an aspirin and you have a mean workout stack. This is another one of those ones to be careful with, and never do with deprenyl.
Flex
Oh and if you want some good stuff on hydration check out: http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/FluidBook/fl3_6.php

Way too much detail for your purposes, but it is pretty interesting. Personally I would strive for a dietary K+/NA+ ratio of 4 as a guidelines. The text doesn't really lend much practical value wink.gif
code buttons
QUOTE(Flex @ Mar 24, 2011, 08:41 AM) *

Oh and if you want some good stuff on hydration check out: http://www.anaesthesiamcq.com/FluidBook/fl3_6.php

Way too much detail for your purposes, but it is pretty interesting. Personally I would strive for a dietary K+/NA+ ratio of 4 as a guidelines. The text doesn't really lend much practical value wink.gif

Let me digest all this info as I got some other conjectures I would like to clarify. Thanks beforehand, though.
Trip like I do
I am currently using N.O. Xplode and prefer it too other brands like super pump and size on
Flex
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Mar 24, 2011, 03:00 PM) *

I am currently using N.O. Xplode and prefer it too other brands like super pump and size on


Looks pretty good to me. I would have some carbs right when I start working out though, and BCAA.
Net Runner Overdose
Xpand Extreme Pump before
Elite Whey Protein Isolate after
Arginine, Ornithine, Lysine before goin to bed

Ephedrine is on his way...
Phi
Has NO Xplode been helpful?? I'm not quite sure I understand why it would be beneficial, but I keep hearing about it
Flex
Two roles:
1.) the urea cycle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea_cycle
2.) arginine produces NO (hence NO xplode) which is a powerful signaling molecule, which dilated the blood vessels helping you to get a better "pump".

Actually one of my professors discovered this role and got the Nobel prize for it--still works at UCLA.
Phi
funny, its almost turning into a bodybuilding forum...

anyway, the "pump" seems to be no joke
orangesand
Could do no supplements, the long term effects of high amount of say protein, 400mg as pros
take, can lead to kidney liver problems, your liver has to deal with these drugs and the interaction
of taking multiple drugs may/often leads to a drug inhibiting another drug , slowing its metabolism,
accelerating it, ie drug A may make drug B be cleared out of system with out drug B working,
drug B may become overly expressed
Phi
If one has the luxury of eating properly then I'm sure there's no need to supplement
orangesand
As fortunately most of us do in America(have a proper diet cheaply available). People get a little overboard
on weights. I think doing outside work is better for you, than in a gym.
code buttons
QUOTE(orangesand @ May 09, 2011, 01:35 PM) *

...As fortunately most of us do in America(have a proper diet cheaply available)...

Good luck with that in the near future! Have you gone to the market lately?! What's going on!
Flex
3 lbs of frozen chicken breast for $6--all the protein you need right there. If you are a fan of Benihannas like me, this doesn't help you much smile.gif
orangesand
QUOTE(code buttons @ May 09, 2011, 05:59 PM) *

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 09, 2011, 01:35 PM) *

...As fortunately most of us do in America(have a proper diet cheaply available)...

Good luck with that in the near future! Have you gone to the market lately?! What's going on!


Went to the grocery today, seemed fine. Are you saying/do you think that people will overtake/abuse the land to the point of not being able to have enough food in the future?
orangesand
We have enough food to feed 100% of the Earth's population, distribution appears to be a major problem.
Phi
I would think that I would need to set aside roughly 1000 a month for food and I could get everything I needed/wanted. Some people can't/choose not to spend that much on food
orangesand
QUOTE(Phi @ May 12, 2011, 02:43 AM) *

I would think that I would need to set aside roughly 1000 a month for food and I could get everything I needed/wanted. Some people can't/choose not to spend that much on food


That seems like a far bit of money, are supplements a fair part of the price? I guess I may spend a bit on food, though I probably go out to eat to much. Would you buy that much food for the calories(to bulk up), associated with working out?
Phi
I'm including money to eat out...that's about it. If I include what I buy for the home and eating out(at a rate that I would be most comfortable and happy) it would be around there. I definitely spend much less(somewhere around 50 dollars a week), but I would one day like to spend that much on food per month.

I think I could probably be spending more money on food when I crave it and buy it/make it; instead I try to anticipate the week and wind up feeling like I'm lacking things half of the time.
orangesand
I often buy nothing, go out to fast food
only have pop on hand,

I wonder if cravings are associated/correlated with
the amount of meals eaten during the day/week?

I get the unusual sensation(for me) that I know that
there is something, some type of food I am craving
but I am not sure what I/my body wants
orangesand
I know when my money is low that I look at the price of food very
differently than when I have money, its surprising to me on how cheap
I can spend on food, verses when I am not worrying about money
Phi
QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 01:21 PM) *

I often buy nothing, go out to fast food
only have pop on hand,

I wonder if cravings are associated/correlated with
the amount of meals eaten during the day/week?

I get the unusual sensation(for me) that I know that
there is something, some type of food I am craving
but I am not sure what I/my body wants


I think that cravings are associated with the body's need/want for certain constituents; the amount of times I eat certain foods (with certain needed constituents) will reduce the need for them.
orangesand
that makes sense, the psychological craving for food is
of interest to me, like people craving chocolate, and the gender differences
in food cravings, women crave chocolate and have a highened response to
the food compared to men.
Flex
Tons of research on that. One can actually become addicted to sugar (based on DSM criteria). This was proven in mice experimentally.

Obese individuals are more likely to respond to food rewards than non-obese individuals. This has been linked to genes involving dopamine (reward) and accounts for the addiction to food.

Women are less capable of resisting temptation than men. They do not necessarily have heightened response.

***I will ask Dr. Heber (founder of the UCLA Department of Clinical Nutrition) for some of his slides with relevant studies when I run into him next. In the meantime, try to google some of his papers on the effects of pomegranate on gene expression--interesting stuff.
orangesand
"Women are less capable of resisting temptation than men", do you think that is true all round, or do you mean that some specific fashion? I was talking about in chocolate, their is phenethylamine (PEA), which shows affinity for dopamine(DA)/ noradrenaline(NA) receptors, (PEA) is a releasing agent for (DA and NA) , which acts (PEA) as a stimulantish and feelgood drug in women. For reasons I believe that are not entirely clarified women like this (PEA) rush more than men.
orangesand
"pomegranate on gene expression" , okay sounds interesting.
Flex
QUOTE(orangesand @ May 15, 2011, 04:48 AM) *

"Women are less capable of resisting temptation than men", do you think that is true all round, or do you mean that some specific fashion? I was talking about in chocolate, their is phenethylamine (PEA), which shows affinity for dopamine(DA)/ noradrenaline(NA) receptors, (PEA) is a releasing agent for (DA and NA) , which acts (PEA) as a stimulantish and feelgood drug in women. For reasons I believe that are not entirely clarified women like this (PEA) rush more than men.


From what I have read, it applies not only to chocolate, but across the board food wise. Women and men have similar propensities to become addicted to sugar; however, women are less able to resist the temptation. It is most likely an effect of fluctuating estrogen levels. The amount of PEA from chocolate is really pretty negligible despite the popularity in mainstream press. This is sort of analogous to claims of chocolates antioxidant powers, in relation to ORAC scores, when in reality this is probably not the case at all. The antioxidant qualities are most likely not from the chocolate polyphenols themselves (which only last for minutes at best in the body) but from up regulating endogenous antioxidant enzyme biosynthesis.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/81/1/277S.short
orangesand
Women's periods, need glucose/insulin to be well regulated to be able to work additively with estrogen to allow for the possibility of reproduction(simplistically speaking). Though the consumption of carbohydrates often appears to have a causalish relationship with 5HTP, 5HT levels. I was reading something about people who supplement with 5HTP and it was noted that the participants consumed around 75% less carbs without trying to, leading to an assumption that carbohydrates are used principally for 5HT production. It also showed that something like twice as much 5HIAA(5HT's active metabolite) was recovered in the urine.
5HT=5-hydroxytryptamine/Serotonin ,5THP=5-Hydroxytryptophan 5HIAA=5-Hydroxyindoleacetic acid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18209781( semi on topic)

Chocolate seems to do something to X amount of women, PEA metabolism depends on MAO(Monoamine oxidases) A and B type and other systems. MAO inhibitors increase PEA's effect. As most people do not take a commercial/synthetic MOAI PEA gets broken down rapidly by MAO-B. There may be enkalphins/opioid induction,/ release. Chocolate or something similar that is craved/desired, it may be that happy effects are do to the person's anticipatory excitement which may cause the release of X chemicals.
Yoder
QUOTE(Flex @ Mar 24, 2011, 08:29 AM) *


If you want to get into some cool stuff smile.gif recent NADH research, a lot of which is soon to be published out of UCLA, has strongly suggested its efficacy as an ergogenic aid. In the future, it may even be added to the WADA list (which is pretty BS as it isn't a particularly dangerous compound. This will also aid as a nootropic. Other "nootropics" will also give you an immense workout aid. Galantamine in particular works well for me. Anything boosting acetylcholine levels should help do the job, since ACh is vital to muscle firing. L-DOPA works for sure smile.gif Deprenyl will definitely get the job done, but is sort of risky, so don't take more than 1mg and NEVER take it with L-DOPA or galantamine.




Hey Flex -
What interactions may occur with Deprenyl and Galantamine?
Flex
Best to get your MAOi from the old fashion sources: herbs and spices. They are not as gnarly as pharmaceutical preparations, and you do not have to worry about killing yourself!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor

Galantamine will not only effect acetylcholine, since it is a very stimulating substance. Once the locomotion begins, so too does the release of other neurotransmitters! Hence my comment on the use of nootropics as ergogenics.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/ylm2xhwlmpnbervg/

Galantamine itself is also a MAO inhibitor of a different nature:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19025057

I can tell you from experience, deprenyl is some dangerous stuff. I have nearly killed myself on multiple occasions. Seriously. For instance, having experimented with the combination of weed and deprenyl (which btw is works wonders to help you quit) I knew the two could be combined without too much concern. One night I was passed a blunt, and took a few hits. 5 min later I couldn't breath or stop shaking. The muscles in my legs completely locked in a flex state.

BTW even just in combination with weed, it can become difficult to breath for me. I believe it is due to the fact that I am already allergic to the stuff, but in combination my bodies response becomes enhanced and closes my throat. Can still breath through my nose fine however.

Basically if you are going to take the stuff, don't take ANYTHING else, and do not take very much. Better to be safe than sorry. Also important to check blood pressure regularly.
Yoder
QUOTE(Flex @ Sep 13, 2011, 12:21 PM) *

Best to get your MAOi from the old fashion sources: herbs and spices. They are not as gnarly as pharmaceutical preparations, and you do not have to worry about killing yourself!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor

Galantamine will not only effect acetylcholine, since it is a very stimulating substance. Once the locomotion begins, so too does the release of other neurotransmitters! Hence my comment on the use of nootropics as ergogenics.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/ylm2xhwlmpnbervg/

Galantamine itself is also a MAO inhibitor of a different nature:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19025057

I can tell you from experience, deprenyl is some dangerous stuff. I have nearly killed myself on multiple occasions. Seriously. For instance, having experimented with the combination of weed and deprenyl (which btw is works wonders to help you quit) I knew the two could be combined without too much concern. One night I was passed a blunt, and took a few hits. 5 min later I couldn't breath or stop shaking. The muscles in my legs completely locked in a flex state.

BTW even just in combination with weed, it can become difficult to breath for me. I believe it is due to the fact that I am already allergic to the stuff, but in combination my bodies response becomes enhanced and closes my throat. Can still breath through my nose fine however.

Basically if you are going to take the stuff, don't take ANYTHING else, and do not take very much. Better to be safe than sorry. Also important to check blood pressure regularly.


OK, I think I'm convinced not to take it smile.gif
kennyS
I am using mostly BCAA's and Protein shakes, rarely Arginine for running and feel completely happy about that, did also try testosterone course, all together it worked great!
yankee
One of my friend suggested me Calisthenics. It is the fastest way to use weight. Simultaneously you should take some weight loss pills or drops. Else it will be very difficult to lose weight.
Brain.Booster
Really strongly agree with Flex, stay away from pharmaceuticals as much as you can. I just like caffeine as a preworkout, whey and creatine. Although I'm no Schwarzenegger, so maybe I'd get a little further with some drugs!
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