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> Legal Challenges issued to Mind-Brain.com; Forced to Change Domain Name by Dec 02
Tabitha
post Nov 04, 2004, 11:39 PM
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;-)

I know Dan. I am no fun at all lately, though. This is my life after all :-P

I really appreciate your comments in this thread, though. You have been a member here a long time and I appreciate your input. I hope you all plan to follow us to the new site. This place wouldn't be the same without all of you wub.gif
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Tabitha
post Nov 04, 2004, 11:43 PM
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Dan, no, no relation to JHU. I was told the name of the university the individual is with but I forgot.

Unknown & Dan I hope you understand why I removed the email address. As tempting as it is to let this person have it, we really could get into trouble with our host if we allow the address to be posted and encourage people to write them over this. And we want to retain the host when we move since it has served us so well for so long.

Thanks for understanding.
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Dan
post Nov 04, 2004, 11:49 PM
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no prob

I've already tracked down this guy and his website for my personal viewing pleasure, but I shall leave him alone and keep his identity to myself for your security needs

ph34r.gif
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Tabitha
post Nov 04, 2004, 11:52 PM
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*grin* Thanks, Dan. I appreciate your restraint ;-)
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Robert the Bruce
post Nov 05, 2004, 12:14 AM
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Jealous over the success of this site - please.

What success? JHU is not interested in having the site - just the name and forcing Shawn to know they are in a position to do what they want. This lesson is an important lesson - and I can understand why people choose to acquiesce to such pressure but I have chosen to not do any such thing in my life and I will not be party to it.

If it is successful it is only because people have been allowed their right to express themself. Why would a university want to stop free expression? Ask yourselves if you honestly think there is a chance in hell that JHU could be named in a lawsuit and then proceed to act against Shawn? NO WAY! It would increase their risk exposure for a truly major lawsuit having to do with his potential earnings for decades. Their insurance company and lawyers would not hear of it. Study up on this and evaluate their risk exposure. Getting a lawyer assures Shawn that he will get his degree unless they can prove beyond any doubt that they are right to deny it - and there are always two points of view at a minimum - he does not jeopardize his years of work by acting appropriately and protecting his rights and the real and actual value in the name and this site.


Not filing the suit exposes Shawn to further pressures to conform to whatever their real agenda is - and it is not the success of this site. I will not be participating in a fraud or the move - thank you Tabitha.
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Tabitha
post Nov 05, 2004, 12:15 AM
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I just wanted to take a moment and answer some of the questions that have been asked in this thread:


QUOTE
When will Shawn complete his graduate studies? 


We are aiming for January of next year if not sooner.

QUOTE
What about the other founder members? How do they figure here. Could it be that due to their financial input Shawn cannot shut down or they might sue him.


We played that card. They threatened Shawn's career in response. Any members who's memberships have not expired when we move will retain their membership benefits as well as receiving an extension of benefits to apologize for the incovenience.


QUOTE
But I would like to know what his supervisor is doing about supporting him.


The situation was presented to him and he advised that the best thing to do would be to give in. Apparently, other students have had run-ins with the higher ups in the past and won, but suffered professional consequences later. Keep in mind, Shawn is hoping to do a post-doc at this same institution so burning bridges is not a good idea for us. Especially considering the status of JHU in the medical community.


QUOTE
Are there JH regulations that prevent students from doing anyhting like this that Shawn should have known about before starting up.


No.

QUOTE
How do JH figure in the running of the forum/site/URL etc. Is there a cost to them.


They do not run the site and there is no cost to them. We paid for this site and the domain out of our own pockets for quite some time and Shawn has spent thousands of hours coding it himself. In the last year or so we have had several members who made generous donations to the maintenance of the site when it got to be too much for us personally and others who donated their time and talent, which is a tremendous help.


QUOTE
Have there been complaints to them (eg are there any abusers of the forum - language, sex, flaming JH, etc, etc)?


There was a copyright infringement complaint lodged with the provost's office by a private individual over a misunderstanding. That is how they became aware of the site.

QUOTE
How high has the demand to quit come from? Vice Chancellor (or whatever at JH) or departmental, shareholders, political? Have any legal eagles from or behalf of JH been involved?


The Provost's office, which is basically a building full of lawyers to the Dean is making the demand. So it goes to the very top of the "food chain"

QUOTE
Has Shawn taken any (of his own) legal advice at all?


Yes. We have been informed that we would win in court but at great personal and professional costs. We have decided that this moral stance would cost us to much emotionally and personally and put too great a risk on Shawn's career to pursue it. This was a cost-benefit analysis we had to make based on our personal goals and desires. Shawn has received assurances that by turning over the name he will no longer risk professional damage.

QUOTE
I assume that the matter of ISP will have to change whatever??? 


The domain will change. Our IP Address and our ISP will remain the same. We hope to continue hosting the new site with our current hosting service as they have performed so well given the amount of traffic we generate.


If anyone has further questions, please post them and we will try to answer as soon as we can.
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Unknown
post Nov 05, 2004, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 04, 09:14 PM)
Jealous over the success of this site - please.

What success? JHU is not interested in having the site

I don't think the poster meant that JHU was ever jealous of the site but rather that individuals who complained to the university about the site may have been motivated by jealousy or other base motives.
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Tabitha
post Nov 05, 2004, 12:26 AM
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I will also add, just to clarify, that JHU is not demanding the site or the forum close. They are demanding that we turn over the rights to this domain name and change the name of the site. So, rest assured, that this site will continue. It will simply have a new name and URL

Thanks.
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TAFKAHH
post Nov 05, 2004, 10:23 AM
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Sorry, please can you clarify. Who owns www.mind-brain.com? That is, the domain name. If it is Shawn, is he being pressurised into transferring it to JH. I think in the UK we call this mugging. You know, when someone hits you over the head and takes something from you that you own and would prefer to keep. Then you've lost your valuables and got a headache. Sometimes the victim dies. It's a crime here. Good luck to you Shawn. It's not your fault.
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Tabitha
post Nov 05, 2004, 11:39 AM
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Tafkahh;

At the moment *I* am the legal registrant of www.mind-brain.com . Effective December 2, JHU will be the legal owner per our agreement with them. As I stated last night, this is neither fair nor right by anyone's definition but it is unfortunate reality.

So, on that note, maybe we should start a new thread on possible names for the site? We have a lot of hours of work ahead of us in moving this site so the sooner we decide on a name, the better.

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Shawn
post Nov 05, 2004, 11:41 AM
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It's good to have an open discussion about the domain issue like this, but please be sure to not take things too far. Excessive emails and the like are certainly not encouraged. If you have a point to make to a relevant individual, then by all means, feel free to email them. But do not send out excessive emails or anything harrassing. Otherwise, I will end up catching the heat for it.

Also I would like to thank everyone here for their support. We will survive this incident, and in fact, thrive off of it. I am very grateful for everyone involved here and to those who have contributed their thoughts, feelings, and more.

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Rick
post Nov 05, 2004, 11:47 AM
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Having thought about this overnight now, it occurs to me that there are other things that ought to be considered in addition to the benign alternatives I outlined above. A brute force confrontation may escalate to an unwinnable situation (or maybe not), and more precise (intelligent) alternatives ought to be explored first.

In situations like this, the problem is often due to a single individual (at Johns Hopkins) who has either a.) gotten a greed flash, or b.) has embarked on a vendetta for some perceived slight from Shawn or someone else at Mind-Brain.com.

If a.), then perhaps a more sensible (in touch with the justice reality) person at JH might be requested to act as an intermediary to propose a reasonable solution. If b.), then, similarly, someone might be asked to step in and defuse the situation before it blows up into a lose-lose situation.
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Unknown
post Nov 05, 2004, 11:55 AM
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yeah, mind-brain rules!
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Tabitha
post Nov 05, 2004, 12:23 PM
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Please continue to use this thread for venting and asking questions about the specifics surrounding our agreement with JHU. However, we have started a new thread here to get input on the new name and any changes our members would like to see during the move.

Thank you all again for your support. We appreciate it very much.
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Jasper666
post Nov 05, 2004, 04:25 PM
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Dear whomever is so phucken irresponsible for removing what I placed in this very space, right here this very last night, in relation to exactly why no mind-brain can advocate nor alienate any Mind-Brain matter or fourm for that matter: you're a genocidal indemocratic sychophant with a Pathological ugre for anarchy distressed as intelligence in bi-polarization of any diplomacy!

This means War: but I tell you to simply to GROW UP and face me face to face, you A class typical woman basher!

Jasper
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Tabitha
post Nov 05, 2004, 05:32 PM
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Jasper, what are you talking about? I edited a post that I know was not made by you with an email address. I see that the poster has since deleted their entire post. To my knowledge, that is the only thing that was edited or removed. If a moderator removed something you posted, please let me know what it was or PM Shawn. Unfortunately, he is at work right now so I can't ask him about it right this instant but I have emailed him to ask about your complaint.
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Unknown
post Nov 09, 2004, 09:30 AM
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Did the idea for the mind-brain.com domain name come from the Mind Brain Institute at JHU?
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Shawn
post Nov 09, 2004, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Unknown @ Nov 09, 09:30 AM)
Did the idea for the mind-brain.com domain name come from the Mind Brain Institute at JHU?

It's impossible to rule out the possibility that my being at the institute influenced my choice of domain name, either at a conscious level or subconscious level, bearing in mind that my interest in the 'mind-brain' relation well preceded my ever hearing of the institute by almost a decade. The question is, if I were at a different institute, would I still have chosen the 'mind-brain.com' domain? Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to this question.
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Dan
post Nov 14, 2004, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 04, 09:14 PM)
I will not be participating in a fraud or the move

apparently you are a liar, RTB
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Robert the Bruce
post Nov 14, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Dear Dan

Good research - see when you put your mind to it you can actualy DO something.

Let me explain my change of heart.

Rather than it actually being JHU who was at fault as Shawn had said. It was in fact Shawn who had consciously or unconsciously but fraudulently or at least illegally used the name without getting their approval. When I originally asked he indicated that his use of Mind-Brain preceded theirs but when I started reposting co-incides with the fact of this apparent misunderstanding.

Domain names with a .com do not subrogate prior use - if you remember the things I said about prior use or were to try to be fair (again you illustrate a mere attack dog mentality) you would have put that in context. However, if any manager knows how to delete all my postings and me access to this site and remove the possibility of google displaying these things of mine that are here I would appreciate it.

I really do not enjoy having to correct your stupid assertions and lies as well as the other goons and terrorists who never address the facts or read the postings to begin with.

It would appear Lindsay also has curtailed participation and he and Trip were just about the only regulars who even tried (Rick too) to have a discourse analysis.
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Unknown
post Nov 14, 2004, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 14, 08:15 AM)
It was in fact Shawn who had consciously or unconsciously but fraudulently or at least illegally used the name without getting their approval.

RTB, why would Shawn need to get JHU's approval for use of the 'Mind-Brain.com' domain name when JHU obviously does not have exclusive rights to all things 'mind-brain'? 'Mind-brain' is a term that has been in use for centuries to denote the relations between mind and brain; it does not belong to anyone. That's like saying that 'kargaroo' belongs to Australia and that you should ask for permission from the Australian gov't before using the word.
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Unknown
post Nov 14, 2004, 11:33 AM
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This whole thread is really a moot topic anyway since the new name 'BrainMeta' is more original and much better than 'Mind-Brain'. But that's just my opinion.
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Robert the Bruce
post Nov 14, 2004, 12:50 PM
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It is a matter of building trade name recognition. The Mind-Brain Institute pre-existed the domain name and they are totally within their rights to not want the confusion of the value they pre-built in their Institute.

They use it as a logo if you will. You cannot usurp these things just by putting a new suffix onto it - and legally get away with it.
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Enki
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:08 PM
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Who is from the The Mind-Brain Institute on this forum?

Just interesting.
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Unknown #807
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:25 PM
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The site administrator and owner Shawn, is studying at Johns Hopkinks University (also known as the mind-brain institute).

This is stated in previous posts in this thread.

Long live BrainMeta, long live Shawn !!!!!
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Enki
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:35 PM
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So I wonder what they want of Shawn?
He created a nice forum.
I like this forum.
I think the University MUST cooperate with Shawn as, only prominent man can create such an interesting site and attract so any different and interesting people all around the world.

I think that Johns Hopkins University have to support Shawn instead creating problems. And help to increase the site database making it as academic as it is possible.

Hope this humble opinion will be taken for granted.

By the way, which person in the University is the main who creates the problems for the site? May I know his name, position. What are his motivations. Just interesting. Who knows maybe it will be possible to generate a good permanent solution to Shawn's problem? smile.gif
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Unknown #6964
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 14, 09:50 AM)
they are totally within their rights to not want the confusion of the value they pre-built in their Institute.

RTB, how many people do you think are confused? The Mind-Brain Institute's Web site gets 10-20 unique visitors per day. This one gets 6000-12000 unique visitors per day. How many of those 6000-12000 visitors do you think got confused at the Mind-Brain.com site and thought it was the site for the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute at JHU? How many of those visitors do you think looked at the dotcom extension in 'Mind-Brain.com' and said to themselves "Gee, this '.com' (as opposed to .edu) extension must be here because 'Mind-Brain.com' is an educational institute; and because it's got 'Mind-Brain' in the domain name, it must be referring to the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute at Johns Hopkins University"?

I'll tell you how many: None. No-one came to 'Mind-Brain.com' looking for the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute. If you run a search on google for 'mind brain', 'Mind-Brain.com' comes up at #1. If you run a search on google for 'mind brain institute', the website for the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute comes up at #1. There was no confusion. There is no substance to that claim.
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Robert the Bruce
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:41 PM
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Any person who sees Shawn is with the Mind-Brain Institute and has this site with the same name would be thinking there is an authorized connection. Trade Mark law is clear and unequivocal and one can establish that something is not Public Domain even if it was once a common phrase through their use of it.

And you can go through the posts to see I know what I am talking about and consulted my brother who is very expert in these matters - when I was told it was first used by Shawn - which was not true.
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Unknown #6964
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 14, 09:50 AM)
It is a matter of building trade name recognition.

I'll grant that they built trade name recognition for the name 'Krieger Mind-Brain Institute', but that does not mean they have exclusive rights over other people's usage of the term 'Mind-Brain'. It would be like Descartes (or descendents)claiming he had built trade name recognition over the term 'Mind-Brain' centuries before JHU, thereby barring the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute from using the term 'Mind-Brain' in their name. There is simply no substance to these types of arguments. You cannot claim exclusive rights over other people's usage of common words and terms. 'Mind-brain' is a common term. Hence, no-one can claim exclusive rights over it. It would be like the Super Duper Department of Philosophy at University X claiming it had exclusive rights over other people's usage of the term "philosophy". It's absurd.
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Unknown #6964
post Nov 14, 2004, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Nov 14, 10:41 AM)
Any person who sees Shawn is with the Mind-Brain Institute and has this site with the same name would be thinking there is an authorized connection.

Where on this site does it say anything about Shawn's connection with the Krieger Mind-Brain Institute? Where on this site does it say anything to the effect that Shawn is owner of this site? If you find anything, please post the URLs to the relevant pages, as I do not believe such pages exist on this site.


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