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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 10:59 AM
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The Ten Commandments:

1) You shall have no other Gods before me.

2) You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5) Honor your mother and father.

6) You shall not murder.

7) You shall not commit adultry.

8) You shall not steal.

9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10) You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.



These are commandments which aim to supress the selfish desires of the Ego. Killing, lying, giving in to sensual pleasure and materialism, envying, worshiping idles...These are all actions which one is tempted to do by the Ego, but do not help one attain peace and enlightenment. You shall not take the Lord's name in vain. You should not believe that the Ego is more significant than God, than Totality.

I think by honoring one's mother and father, one should be honoring all who have more experience in the world. The elders, the wise ones. It is with their help that we gain knowledge and truth.

Remember the sabbath day. I am not quite sure the function of this commandment. Could it be that we live in such a complicated social world that it is to our benefit to devote a full day of the week to ourselves and our own meditation?

You shall have no other Gods before me. What is meant by this? I guess it depends on what is meant by God. If God is Totality, then this commandment is reminding us that God is more significant than the Ego, and that the Ego is only a part of God.

I think problems begin to arise when God is viewed as a separate entity from us. The other commandments seem to suggest that problems arise when the Ego is viewed as separate from God, so how can God be viewed as separate from the Ego? This first commandment should not be interpreted to mean that we should close our minds to other opinions of Truth. This would be a hinderence to our own understanding of Truth. Unfortunately, I think that many religions think this way...I think that many religions misunderstand the Ten Commandments, especially the First.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE
1) You shall have no other Gods before me.


Rather than interpreting this positively as "you shall only worship God," it should be interpreted as "you shall not worship what is not God." You shall not worship what is finite, what is mortal, what is temporary. God is none of these.

It doesn't make sense that God should be a person. That is why this commandment is so confusing. "You shall have no other Gods before me" Before ME! This assumes that God is an Ego, and it is the Ego that the other commandments seem to scorn.
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Joesus
post Jul 23, 2008, 01:37 PM
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It's only confusing if you don't know God.
The ten commandments were never meant to be a mainstream poster for the ego based world.
Some things are only self evident in states of self awareness, and at different levels of conscious awareness what is obvious becomes illusion, and what is elusive becomes obvious.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE
The ten commandments were never meant to be a mainstream poster for the ego based world.


What were they meant for? What is your take on them?
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 02:37 PM
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Only the first pillar of Islam gets it part right:

"There is no god ..."
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 02:44 PM
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There is defintely something. God doesn't have to be interpreted as being a conscious entity separate from us. God is just another name for that something. Some call it Tao, some call it The Universe. They are all different words for the same thing.

"That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet."
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 02:49 PM
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The trouble with using the term "god" to mean the universe is that it invites confusion. It almost guarantees that someone somewhere will misunderstand and put a monotheistic spin on things. Rather than say "god is not a person" I prefer "there is no supernatural entity."
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 03:05 PM
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It is certainly true that "God" invites confusion and invites monotheistic implications. But this is true in the present time. I'm wondering what people 2000 years ago were talking about when they said "God." Were they talking about a supernatural entity that exists separate from us, or were they talking about God as a Taoist talks about Tao? I'm wondering if pantheism somehow got distorted and turned into monotheism.
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE(boots @ Jul 23, 2008, 01:05 PM) *
I'm wondering if pantheism somehow got distorted and turned into monotheism.

I doubt it. I think belief is evolving from primitive to less primitive. Animism to polytheism to monotheism to pantheism to atheism.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 06:34 PM
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Atheism seems to mirror nihilism, doesn't it? I mean...the pantheist sees God in everything. Not God the person, but God the Totality. The atheist denies God. The nihilist denies Totality (everything that is). The nihilist denies everything. Would it follow that if God represents Totality (what is), and the atheist denies Totality (therefore believing in nothing), that atheism is nihilism?
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 06:50 PM
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No. There is no practical way to distinguish a universe with divinity in it from a universe devoid of divinity. Therefore, the simpler conceptualization is the better one.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 06:55 PM
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I think it is mostly an argument over words. Words are ambiguous. Divinity?

I think we both believe in the universe and we both doubt that a flying spaghetti monster is up there reaching His noodly appendages down.
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Joesus
post Jul 23, 2008, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE
What were they meant for?
Those with the ears to hear and the eyes to see..
QUOTE
Only the first pillar of Islam gets it part right:

"There is no god ..."

The First Pillar
Muslim Profession of Faith

The Shahada is the Muslim profession of faith and the first of the ‘Five Pillars’ of Islam. The word shahada in Arabic means ‘testimony.’ The shahada is to testify to two things:

a. Nothing deserves worship except God (Allah).

b. Muhammad is the Messenger of God (Allah).
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/193


La ilaha ila Allah; Muhammadur-rasul Allah. 'There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.'
http://etori.tripod.com/pillars.html

I'm not following your reference to "there is no God" in the Muslim Faith other than you cutting the sentence off to make a point of your own belief Rick.
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boots
post Jul 24, 2008, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 23, 2008, 07:50 PM) *

No. There is no practical way to distinguish a universe with divinity in it from a universe devoid of divinity. Therefore, the simpler conceptualization is the better one.


Divinity....

Is divinity Love? If you believe that Love is real and present in the universe, then the universe is divine.

Atheism is the denial that the universe is divine. Can the atheist account for Love?
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boots
post Jul 24, 2008, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 23, 2008, 05:50 PM) *

I doubt it. I think belief is evolving from primitive to less primitive. Animism to polytheism to monotheism to pantheism to atheism.


Actually, Buddhism is a form of Atheism. Taoism is a form of pantheism. Both are older than Christianity. I don't know exactly when each (animism, polytheism, monotheism, pantheism, atheism) was established, but I'm pretty sure that they weren't established exactly in that order. I don't think it is a matter of evolving thought. It is a matter of different interpretation of divinity (or lack thereof).
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Joesus
post Jul 24, 2008, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE
Actually, Buddhism is a form of Atheism.

Everything about religion is a form of Atheism, if who ever uses the label of their beliefs of God doesn't include the actual experience of God. Any self proclaimed label is just a name one applies to themselves when they know no experience of God in all things. A superstition, a mirage, an illusion or projection of ego created beliefs and imaginings.

Atheism is a word, and it is only given meaning by those who apply it to themselves and others. It doesn't actually do anything and can't form anything other than the imaginings of human delusion.

Buddha never denied God, and Buddhism as a religion is the following of one who lived with God. Those who know God are the Buddha.
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Rick
post Jul 24, 2008, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 23, 2008, 05:21 PM) *
I'm not following your reference to "there is no God" in the Muslim Faith other than you cutting the sentence off to make a point of your own belief Rick.

I'm merely saying that if they had stopped at those first four words, they would have a more accurate picture of reality. I don't claim to be an atheist. However, it remains to be shown that there exists any supernatural agency.
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Joesus
post Jul 24, 2008, 03:45 PM
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Well, if the divine could be packaged into a neat little box to fit the demands of scientific repeatability, it wouldn't be Divine. It would be a socially contrived consumer package... or a religion.... ohmy.gif
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Rick
post Jul 24, 2008, 04:51 PM
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I'd be satisfied with just some repeatable magical incantations! Would sure beat working for a living.
======================================
Hi! Rick! Where did you come from? How did I get in here? biggrin.gif
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Lindsay
post Jul 28, 2008, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 24, 2008, 01:51 PM) *

I'd be satisfied with just some repeatable magical incantations! Would sure beat working for a living.

======================================
How about Joseph Addison's famous 'Ode' to the glory of God? It was first published in The Spectator, no. 465, 1712. It is reproduced here in its original spelling.
====================
The Spacious Firmament on high,
With all the blue Etherial Sky,
And spangled Heav'ns, a Shining Frame,
Their great Original proclaim:

Th' unwearied Sun, from Day to Day,
Does his Creator's Power display,
And publishes to every Land
The Work of an Almighty Hand.

Soon as the Evening Shades prevail,
The Moon takes up the Wondrous Tale,
And nightly to the list'ning Earth
Repeats the Story of her Birth:

Whilst all the Stars that round her burn,
And all the Planets, in their turn,
Confirm the Tidings as they rowl,
And spread the Truth from Pole to Pole.

What though, in solemn Silence, all
Move round the dark terrestrial Ball?
What tho? nor real Voice nor Sound
Amid their radiant Orbs be found?

In Reason's Ear they all rejoice,
And utter forth a glorious Voice,
For ever singing, as they shine,
The Hand that made us is Divine.?
======================
I find that using the acronym, GOD--all that which is in the process of becoming all goodness, all order and all that is desirable--helps me get away from thinking of a personal god, as in theism.
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Lindsay
post Jul 28, 2008, 11:14 PM
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The following words fit the tune,
THE HOMECOMING, by Haygood Hardy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfwonNQlFPI&feature=related
===============================
We are one with mother earth;
With the land the skies and seas;
One with the source of human birth,
We're one...with GØD.

We are one with father sky;
With the sun, moon, planets, stars;
One with the galaxies on high,
We're one...in GØD.

With the Golden Rule in mind;
We work for justice and for peace;
And with all of human kind,
We work...with GØD.

I feel at one with Christians, Jews;
Who want to build a better world;
With Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus,
I live ... in GØD
=====================
AN EARLIER VERSION
====================
We are one with all that is;
One with land, the sky and seas.
One with the planets, sun, moon, stars,
And all the gal..ax...ies.

We are one with all there is;
And though it may seem rather odd:
We're in the eternal now,
Where all is G...O...D.
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Rick
post Jul 29, 2008, 12:21 PM
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It's unethical to misrepresent the statements of others. Please correct my post by returning it to its original condition.
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Phi
post Jul 30, 2008, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 24, 2008, 12:54 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 23, 2008, 05:21 PM) *
I'm not following your reference to "there is no God" in the Muslim Faith other than you cutting the sentence off to make a point of your own belief Rick.

I'm merely saying that if they had stopped at those first four words, they would have a more accurate picture of reality. I don't claim to be an atheist. However, it remains to be shown that there exists any supernatural agency.

What do you mean by agency Rick?
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Rick
post Jul 30, 2008, 02:48 PM
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Something capable of acting or having an effect on the world.
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Phi
post Jul 30, 2008, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 30, 2008, 12:48 PM) *

Something capable of acting or having an effect on the world.


What if the agency lives through us, or, what if we are the agency? Can the agency be called God if it is represented by the collective action of being?
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Rick
post Jul 30, 2008, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Jul 30, 2008, 02:37 PM) *
What if the agency lives through us, or, what if we are the agency? Can the agency be called God if it is represented by the collective action of being?
That's what I mean by it not being supernatural. It's us, and we're part of nature.

I dislike calling myself "god" (people tend to misunderstand) so I choose to be a gnostic pantheist.
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Phi
post Jul 30, 2008, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 30, 2008, 03:08 PM) *

QUOTE(Phi @ Jul 30, 2008, 02:37 PM) *
What if the agency lives through us, or, what if we are the agency? Can the agency be called God if it is represented by the collective action of being?
That's what I mean by it not being supernatural. It's us, and we're part of nature.

I dislike calling myself "god" (people tend to misunderstand) so I choose to be a gnostic pantheist.


That's funny, so why contradict the existence of God(people tend to be more pissed at that)? BTW, i know that you mean that God doesn't exist in a traditional sense of modern religion but you might as well say you're God if you contradict them. I guess I want to expound upon the connection between the ignorance of my past and the supposed enlightenment of the present and I would like that to be communicatively applicable to similar scenarios.
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Rick
post Jul 30, 2008, 05:45 PM
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Here's the problem: there is no way to tell the difference between a universe devoid of divinity and one that is not. So the default position is atheism, since it's a simpler model.

Also, the issue is the existence of the supernatural, accepted by most religions and religious persons. All credible inquiries show that there is no supernatural agency. No gods or demons, no telepathy, no precognition, no ESP.
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Phi
post Jul 30, 2008, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 30, 2008, 03:45 PM) *

Here's the problem: there is no way to tell the difference between a universe devoid of divinity and one that is not. So the default position is atheism, since it's a simpler model.

Also, the issue is the existence of the supernatural, accepted by most religions and religious persons. All credible inquiries show that there is no supernatural agency. No gods or demons, no telepathy, no precognition, no ESP.


What about belief into fruition?
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Rick
post Jul 30, 2008, 06:43 PM
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That's just mind management, isn't it?
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