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> Religions Actual Usefulness, More Harm Than Good
Hey Hey
post Dec 10, 2006, 07:17 PM
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"The axiom that values come from reason or religion is wrong... There are better ways of ensuring moral motivation than scaring the crap out of people." - Patricia Churchland, philosopher, University of California, San Diego
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project-2501
post Dec 10, 2006, 08:03 PM
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Religion is always about power play. Wherever there are priests there will be problems.
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Joesus
post Dec 10, 2006, 09:11 PM
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Wherever there is ego there will be choices made from fear and the attempt to manipulate and control the environment. This is relevent to an social system, religion is not the problem.
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maximus242
post Dec 10, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Religion can create problems, but the attempt to control ones environment is sociological, but completly giving up the attempt to control anything is also a psychological hinderance. Seems as though a balance is needed.
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Joesus
post Dec 11, 2006, 03:56 AM
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I remember a guy who wore a vest with print, that said "If it has tits or wheels, it's gonna give you trouble!"

We can put blame on anything as the cause of our problems. Balance can only occur when there is the experience of Universal Truth, or when one can stand back and observe the choices people make and allow them to make their choices without being invested in their choices.
There is a certain amount of inevitablity to the universe, like if you stand in the rain your gonna get wet kinda thing but there is no inevitability in choices being made by others, to cause another or the world to suffer.
People see problems when something directly affects them. Humanity being somewhat flexible can move beyond any condition if it has a mind to.
I think there are a few that have no patience.
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maximus242
post Dec 11, 2006, 07:19 PM
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Your not going to get wet if you have a raincoat on ^.-
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Flex
post Dec 11, 2006, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 11, 2006, 04:19 PM) *

Your not going to get wet if you have a raincoat on ^.-


I am assuming you don't go out in the rain too much~
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Joesus
post Dec 12, 2006, 02:23 AM
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I think he was making a joke..
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project-2501
post Dec 12, 2006, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 11, 2006, 02:11 AM) *

Wherever there is ego there will be choices made from fear and the attempt to manipulate and control the environment. This is relevent to an social system, religion is not the problem.


I am a product of a failed evangelical christian fundamentalist dogma. I certainly do not think then when I was a practising evangelical I had any choice at all, my choices were all dictated and not of my own will.
Religion comes from the root latin word religo - which means to tie, to fasten and keep behind. In my opinion religion was ALWAYS meant as a method to control people and repress their own intellect.
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Joesus
post Dec 12, 2006, 01:05 PM
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Humanity, a victimized society of circumstance.

Well then if you accept your own circumstances you fully accept everyone else and allow them to be who they are according to their circumstances.

Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.
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project-2501
post Dec 12, 2006, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM) *

Humanity, a victimized society of circumstance.

Well then if you accept your own circumstances you fully accept everyone else and allow them to be who they are according to their circumstances.

Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.


And so it was, is and shall continue to be.

However this begs the question;

What created the circumstances?
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maximus242
post Dec 12, 2006, 03:32 PM
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Depends on your philosophy, if you beileve in a god then the god made them.

If you are an atheist then you come to realize that reality is a thing of the mind, created by the mind and therefore, everything that was and ever shall be is directly affected by your mind.

I suppose a third view could be a pseudo version of the two combined...

Yeah I was making a joke.
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project-2501
post Dec 12, 2006, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 12, 2006, 08:32 PM) *

Depends on your philosophy, if you beileve in a god then the god made them.

If you are an atheist then you come to realize that reality is a thing of the mind, created by the mind and therefore, everything that was and ever shall be is directly affected by your mind.

I suppose a third view could be a pseudo version of the two combined...



This is why creation, or art is a very strange concept indeed.
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maximus242
post Dec 12, 2006, 03:44 PM
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I do not understand?

The mind creates all reality, therefore, for the mind to create something like art - is very natural. It would be strange if there was no art.
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project-2501
post Dec 12, 2006, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 12, 2006, 08:44 PM) *

I do not understand?

The mind creates all reality, therefore, for the mind to create something like art - is very natural. It would be strange if there was no art.


I mean art in the truer sence. I mean the actual essence of creatitivity itself. For the mind to create its reality the mind must have a platform or a medium to operate on. From where does this creative 'essence' if you like come from? And what is it?
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Hey Hey
post Dec 12, 2006, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM) *
Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.
I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)
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Joesus
post Dec 12, 2006, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 12, 2006, 09:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM) *
Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.
I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)

No, I was being facetious.

QUOTE
What created the circumstances?

That'd be you..
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Flex
post Dec 12, 2006, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 04:58 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 12, 2006, 09:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM) *
Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.
I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)

No, I was being facetious.

QUOTE
What created the circumstances?

That'd be you..


J-Man have you ever read Freakonomics? I recommend you do--there is a particular section about nature v. nurture that is pretty interesting. You may question your beliefs a bit~
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Joesus
post Dec 12, 2006, 08:26 PM
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What beleifs?
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Flex
post Dec 12, 2006, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 12, 2006, 05:26 PM) *

What beleifs?


"I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)

No, I was being facetious."
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maximus242
post Dec 12, 2006, 09:11 PM
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Hmm? what beliefs indeed, I also do not get what your saying Flex.
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Flex
post Dec 12, 2006, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:11 PM) *

Hmm? what beliefs indeed, I also do not get what your saying Flex.


Ahh scratch that I forgot what I was talking about smile.gif
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code buttons
post Dec 15, 2006, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Dec 12, 2006, 07:26 PM) *

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 12, 2006, 06:11 PM) *

Hmm? what beliefs indeed, I also do not get what your saying Flex.


Ahh scratch that I forgot what I was talking about smile.gif

Is that "ahh" as in: ahh! (apathy)? or as in: err! (disdain)?
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Flex
post Dec 15, 2006, 07:18 PM
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Ahh as in ahh I give up my memory sucks~
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Lindsay
post Dec 22, 2007, 03:10 PM
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[quote name='project-2501' date='Dec 12, 2006, 09:53 AM' post='73505']

P-2501, thanks for your excellent definition of "sick religion" when you write: "I am a product of a failed evangelical christian fundamentalist dogma. I certainly do not think then when I was a practising evangelical I had any choice at all, my choices were all dictated and not of my own will.
Religion comes from the root latin word religo - which means to tie, to fasten and keep behind. In my opinion religion was ALWAYS meant as a method to control people and repress their own intellect."
Are you convinced that all religion must be this way?
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Rick
post Dec 26, 2007, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Nov 29, 2006, 05:16 PM) *
... Yes thats right, all those terrorists believe that by dying and killing people, they are doing their gods bidding and will be rewarded in the afterlife, boy are they in for a suprise.

Ironically, they will never know. Death is final.

The only kind of religion that could be "good" would be one that enhances the knowledge of its followers. Since the only practice that does that is science, there is no good religion.

Every "good" that comes from religion could be had in a way that does no extraneous harm. Sacrificing knowledge of reality for comfort is a sucker's reward.

Enhancing the irony further, the false religious comfort is also unnecessary. Reality brings its own good news. Even better, the good news of reality is true: ask not "who am I," ask rather "who am I not?"
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Lindsay
post Dec 27, 2007, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Dec 26, 2007, 11:55 AM) *
Rick's dogma" smile.gif "...Ironically, they will never know. Death is final."..."The only kind of religion that could be "good" would be one that enhances the knowledge of its followers. Since the only practice that does that is science, there is no good religion..."
Just this AM I heard and interview (CBC) with a professor and researcher at the University of Montreal, Dr. Mario Beauregard. I was about his book:
The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060858834...0AS#reader-link
===========
While you are at it, check out:
There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind
Antony Flew, Roy Abraham Varghese

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0061335290...015#reader-link
BTW, I prefer to say, there is GØD, or GØD is. Not, there is a God.
=======
To be fair, I found this interesting. It describes Roy Abraham Varghese as a con.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/11...e_exploitat.php
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Rick
post Jan 07, 2008, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Dec 27, 2007, 01:26 PM) *
... To be fair, I found this interesting. It describes Roy Abraham Varghese as a con.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/11...e_exploitat.php

So why are Christians so desperate? It's because they know unconsciously that they have a losing proposition.
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